The Keto Paleo Life Interview with Zsofia Clemens

Today we have a very special guest joining us all the way from Hungary, Dr. Zsofia Clemens, from the Paleomedicina research group. She’s a neurobiologist and clinical researcher and she specializes in nutritional therapy and brain research. She’s been applying the ketogenic diet to patients with a wide range of diseases and has been experiencing great success!

In this interview we’ll be covering the following topics:

• How she’s using a paleo keto diet to treat what most consider to be untreatable or incurable conditions.
• Dr. Clemens shares about her background in epilepsy.
• How she started working with the ketogenic diet originally.
• A diet system that is called PKD that she’s using in her clinic in Hungary.

Hope you learn as much as I did! Enjoy!

• Video Transcript Below

Video Transcription:

Vivica: Good afternoon everybody and welcome back to the Keto Paleo Life Interviews and today, I am beyond excited to bring you a very special guest all the way from Europe from Hungary is Dr. Zsofia Clemens and she’s from the clinic Paleomedicina in– How do you pronounce that Dr. Zsofia? Did I pronounce that right? How do you pronounce

Dr. Clemens: [Inaudible] [00:44] Zsofia.

Vivica: Zsofia. Okay, so there is a little bit of lost in translation here Zsophia, that’s beautiful. So Dr. Clemens is a neurobiologist and clinical researcher and she specializes in nutrition, nutritional therapy and brain research. She comes from the background of epilepsy and that’s how she started working with the ketogenic diet originally and I know she will tell us all about it.

And in their clinic in Hungary, she’s now using a diet and system that is called PKD; Paleo Keto Diet and she’s applying that for several conditions for patients with immune conditions, diabetes and pretty much any– like cancer and any complicated and mostly considered like untreatable, uncurable condition with great success. Welcome to the Keto Paleo Life Dr. Clemens. I am so happy to have you here.

Dr. Clemens: Hello, good to see you as well.

Vivica: So what I would like to start with is just to have an idea for– I don’t think that your system is very known in the United States. I know you’ve been in a couple of podcasts and interviews, but I actually think that it should be a lot more known and a lot more successful like popular here in the United States. So I would like to introduce the concept of your paleo ketogenic diet – PKD. What is it for you and what does it mean first of all?

Dr. Clemens: So basically, it is an animal meat based diet similar to the originally proposed by the [unintelligible] [02:44] in 1975. He was a gastroenterologist who in general introduced this concept into the medicinal world. Unfortunately at that time, it was in the era before the internet, not many people know about it but he was the very first person. And [unintelligible] is very similar to [inaudible] [03:13] and call it ketogenic diet because the diet has … in the paleolytic diet and ketogenic diet as well.

So may as well call it as cannibal diet but actually myself I prefer saying meat fat based diet or PKD instead of cannibal diet. It has several reasons but basically, it is a diet where the paleolytic principles apply and the ketogenic principal applies at the same time. So it is paleolytic because it is excluding the food components that were not available for the prehistoric humans. And if you think about it, only meat fat or meat, that is what were available so this is basically a paleotic diet. And the verb itself has been starting to use to describe the various diet. The only local diet or include these components that are definitely not available for prehistoric men including vegetables, true large amounts of fruits or some kind of exotic fruits that there are also not some available and supplements and artificial sweeteners and the list is very long.

Vivica: Yes.

Dr. Clemens: Because different people have been using different composition of the diet. But originally, the evolutionary diet is what the [unintelligible] [05:03] has described. Least we think about this and it is ketogenic diet as well because we have to pay attention to the [unintelligible] ratios to the amount of protein and the amount of fat.

Vivica: So you want to keep your patients in a state of ketosis; constant ketosis, right?

Dr. Clemens: Yeah, this is when we’re name of the diet. Sometime conditions are the maintaining ketosis is crucial. For example, anemia diseases, cancer diseases. It’s not that important for those patients who really want to lose weight. So the ratio is not that strict for these people. There are some patients where it is crucial and it optimize your body, the physiology of your body like some ketosis for everybody. Some people can afford not to be in ketosis all the time.

Vivica: So let me ask you what are the conditions– what kind of conditions do your treat more specifically and what are the conditions like the more– Like you just mentioned anemia and cancer, but are those the more difficult condition to resolve that will have the most benefits from your kind of diet?

Dr. Clemens: So [unintelligible] simple disease used to treat, for example, diabetes or obesity, hypertension. These are simple cases.

Vivica: Right.

Dr. Clemens: Things get complicated as patients are taking more and more medicines. So cases where over medicated patients, we have patients taking 20 medicines at the same time for example. Many of them overlapping and you have to take the medicines from one side of the other side patients have to [unintelligible] they drink the medicines and this can get difficult with time. You know?

Vivica: Yes.

Dr. Clemens: And the other difficult topic is the cancer.

Vivica: So, you mentioned that for those patients it’s crucial to be in ketosis and can you just tell us in a nutshell for people who are not so familiar with like the really deep benefits of being in ketosis? Why is ketosis so important for example like on immune patients or cancer patients?

Dr. Clemens: So one side of the story is glucose control by achieving and maintaining ketosis. So if you’re already in ketosis, your blood glucose level will be below and it will not fluctuate as [unintelligible] [08:22] carbohydrate … And in cancer, the excess glucose is feeding the cancer cells more than feeding the …

Vivica: Right.

Dr. Clemens: If you shift the metabolism for carbohydrate base to fat base metabolism, this is one benefit. You can get cancer … But this is only one side of the story and the other one is normalizing membrane permeability which includes intestinal stability and which is crucial for cancer patients; the cell to cell communication [inaudible] [09:08] and these goes away with the meat fat based diet, with the meat fat based ketogenic diet and doesn’t go with any other ketogenic diet [inaudible] ketogenic diet for example

Vivica: That’s right and yeah that brings me to a very important point and a question that is being kind of burning in my mind about the PKD. I’m like how– you know, the applications but also like the results. So you’re able to heal leaky guts through this diet, through this way of eating. You’re able to restore what you call membrane permeability and like make your gut finally being able to like not being impermeable, not to have blocks of proteins come through the guts. So that is proven in clinical practice on your patients so you can actually heal leaky guts and that —

Dr. Clemens: Yes.

Vivica: — this is the only proven way, correct?

Dr. Clemens: Yes, yes. We do measurements. You’re looking together and technically university in Hungary and running together a laboratory where we are able to measure the intestinal permeability 400 tests. So we can do before, after or do the measurements for following gut and the TRP and of course dietary achievements and this is what we see that initially, everybody has high intestinal permeability that is presenting with such a disease. But with time, intestinal permeability may normalize or at least a long while. And this is parallel with improvements in the clinical situation.

Vivica: So in your experience with your patients, once– like there’s been this period of time where like the tests finally show that their permeability is resolved. Can they reintroduce other foods at that point or what happens if they were to introduce other foods like fiber based foods or vegetables for example.

Dr. Clemens: Then the intestinal permeability will increase again within a few hours, it can increase. It is really dynamic.

Vivica: So basically we’re not designed, genetically designed to have those foods because they will always cause issues with the permeability of our gut. Is that what you have found?

Dr. Clemens: Yes exactly, so you’re able to tolerate some vegetables or some food but not more than a certain amount of food and you are not able to tolerate milk, proteins or dairy, grains and oily stuff, other components that you are not able to tolerate. So if you are following PKD, you should never drink milk or eat meat protein in any form. It will increase intestinal permeability.

Vivica: So I have another question that for people out there they might not understand that. So when we talk to you know about— intestinal permeability. So there is a factor that proteins that don’t belong in the bloodstream, they get kind of leaked through the guts especially proteins like gluten proteins or grains or milk proteins like dairy proteins. And then because of also molecular mimicry, they start certain other immune processes. But my question is here, why don’t we have other immune processes to animal based proteins like meat and eggs instead?

Dr. Clemens: So your question is why the animal based proteins do not–

Vivica: Do not induce in our immune reaction in the body.

Dr. Clemens: Because your body is evolutionary adapted to use animal meat and fat but not plant proteins and these are just compromising the cell to cell communication also within the intestinal membrane. So these two things are very different from each other; the animal based proteins and the plant based proteins and the other not just proteins,but the peptides and polysaccharides or [unintelligible] [14:20] and … molecules that are doing this [crosstalk]

Vivica: Very inflammatory.

Dr. Clemens: It should deserve studing on a surveys level I am sure. This is not my specialty. I’m not a cell based researcher. Unfortunately, I am not able to tell you why

Vivica: Right, well for me, I’m not a researcher at all but what I look at is I look at results and that’s what I like to see like in my practice with my patients or just in general with any practice, any diet, any lifestyle. I like to see the results and when you have such consistent good results like something with PKD that you guys have been having for years and years, it’s quite intriguing.

But also. Dr. Clemens something that I wonder because I’ve been having a lot of discussions since I’ve been going more and more carnivore myself and trying to just like really experiment on myself, on like purely animal protein based meat based diet and I’ve been having discussions with colleagues and discussions with either doctors with nutritionists and other people and there’s been some really strong disagreement and some of the cases that have been put to me is that like from evolutionary standpoint, like what I wonder and I’ve been listening to podcasts and to Shaun Baker who I’m sure you’re familiar with.

So, what I wonder is from the evolutionary standpoint, we evolved as humans in different parts of the world. But do you think geographical location of like a certain group of humans and our D.N.A. that about genetics that come from evolving in more into one place versus another makes a difference in what we are able to tolerate for foods or is that all too recent. And then our human like evolution like the core of our evolution is so old that it doesn’t really make a difference. Because just like the foods of agriculture, there are extremely recent in our evolutionary process. So does geographical differences in where humans are on the planet make a difference in like if we are able to tolerate more or if we have to be very strict carnivore?

Dr. Clemens: No, I don’t think that there are meaningful differences in people’s idea of eating because so this is encoded in mitochondria D.N.A. which is highly– has been highly preserved throughout the evolution. So there the variability is very small between any two people from two absolutely different point of the world. So it is very highly conserved. So I don’t think that there are major differences according to geographics and the [unintelligible] [17:44] are the same for all people regardless of the color of the skin on anything.

Vivica: But so my personal question to you is something that I’ve been kind of playing in my head for a bit is because I travel a lot and I spend time like I go to South America, like I go to Asia and I’ve been traveling the world all my life and just like eating different foods and since I’ve been ketogenic and ketopaleo, it’s been sometimes difficult because of the local availability of foods.

And also like I’ve been spending a lot of times like in Peru in the jungle where there are no cows indigenously there. And so I was wondering, I really wanted to ask you like let’s say if we go to a place like the Amazon where the cow is not an indigenous animal, are we going to modify our PKD diet to like the local animals that evolved in that place? How do we work with that?

Dr. Clemens: I’ll say that you have to decide whether to go into the jungle or eat in the [unintelligible] [19:02]. It doesn’t go at the same time I’m afraid because so the animals that are living in the jungle. I’m not sure that you were able to take them down first and even if you take them down they’re very lean, may not contain enough fat and I think that the aboriginal people are living in the rain forests of South Africa.

[Inaudible] themselves or at least quantitatively starved and as you can see, they tend to have a large belly which is that there is shortage of protein, shortage of this food so they– Somehow, my opinion is there this somehow some time to history stamped into the rain forest. But it is found at the end of evolutionary process there. Humans are generally adapted to colder climates and to animals that are living on the cool climate and climate of the earth has changed much during the last 10,000 year.

Vivica: Right.

Dr. Clemens: And it is not good for everybody.

Vivica: And so this is also due to extinction of the larger mammals because of over hunting by humans because we were like our ancestor nutrition is based on larger mammals that had larger quantity of body fat and those all got hunted into extinction pretty much.

Dr. Clemens: Yes or the climate change.

Vivica: Yeah.

Dr. Clemens: [Inaudible] [20:56] extinct so I’m not sure that it was man [crosstalk].

Vivica: Yeah, there are some theories out there now like the … this option that we actually wasn’t the climate but we ate them all. So I think it’s possible too knowing humans. You know if that was the main food staple for ancient humans it’s possible that as human like population boomed, then the food supply kind of receded and that would prove the theory that that was our main food supply; large mammals with high body fat percentages.

Dr. Clemens: Yes, it’s true. But remember that these animals also lost the original habitat. [Unintelligible] [21:47] and these larger grasslands that are been dominated most of the planet disappeared and woodlands took the place of the grasslands.

Vivica: That’s right and some habitat was lost. This is a quite interesting. I kind of wanted [laughs]. I’m just like taking you on a tangent here a little bit, I’m sorry. But I want to ask you– I have my list of questions here because I have too many questions and I wanted to ask you a couple of questions here before I go into specific conditions. But one thing that has been on my mind and I know that from our common patients, we’ve talked about– so you guys are proposing to eat four legged animals as part of the PKD diet.

Dr. Clemens: Yes.

Vivica: What about– I know that you say that it’s better to eat conventional meat than no meat at all. So I wanted to ask you about bio accumulation and the accumulations of toxins in animal tissues and especially in the fat when we come to eat conventionally raise because in the United States, the situation is a little different than where you are and I think that the level of toxicity found in this country versus Europe especially places like Hungary might be very different and United States has been highly industrialized especially the farming processes are highly industrialized.

So what do you feel like for example for a person in the United States and is faced with the conventional meat system, the factory farms. Do you think that by accumulation of toxins in the tissues is a problem or not?

Dr. Clemens: Yes, I do think that this is a problem but I do not have a solution to that problem.

Vivica: Grass fed beef like I know– you know, one thing I tell my patients is like chose with your dollars. It’s what you pay for is what you’re going to get and hopefully, the more we chose better way to raise beef and eat sustainable ways, then we can get them but–

Dr. Clemens: Actually if you do have patience in the US as well and sooner or later, it turns out that everybody is able somehow looking to [unintelligible] the farmer that is breeding grass fed beef or pork. It is not easy to find them but if you take the time and the energy and of course afford the money [inaudible].

Vivica: Right, well I’m glad you agree on this and that’s been very important for me and in the practice also seeing how toxic people are when they come and trying to educate them on like good choices. But I think that the financial part is probably resolves itself because when you’re only eating meat, then you don’t need a bunch of other things and you can’t afford to get better meat.

Dr. Clemens: Yes, this is true.

Vivica: So I wanted to ask you like one of the things I see most in my practice is endocrine cases especially thyroid. A lot of thyroid issues in the United States hypothyroidism is one of the main conditions with thyroid medication being I think at the top of the drugs sold in this country. So how does the diet work with thyroid and in general endocrinal imbalances? Do you see a lot of this cases, how do they get resolved?

Dr. Clemens: Yes, we do see many of them actually. The thyroid disease is one of the most over diagnosed disease in the world and in the rest of the world specifically. So actually, this is not a disease. It is just the adjustment of the body to eating too much carbohydrate. And so far, you take away the excess carbohydrate the body just is doing fine [crosstalk] [26:34].

Vivica: Adjust itself.

Dr. Clemens: It is adjusted and in that case, you do not need thyroid medication but you have to follow up the thyroid hormones in these patients. So actually, this is the [unintelligible] [26:52] which patients need because they are … and they eating a local diet. And this is true for [inaudible] not all of them but [inaudible].

Vivica: So do you have your own blood work parameters that you use for your own patients once they have been adapted to the PKD and you can see they’re healthier but different than the ones that are used by labs?

Dr. Clemens: Yes, we are here following up this according to our list, our laboratory list. Yes and some for out of the reference range that is regarded normal according to standard–

Vivica: Yeah.

Dr. Clemens: — thinking.

Vivica: Lab interesting.

Dr. Clemens: You know like [unintelligible] [27:55] ketones in the urine —

Vivica: Yeah.

Dr. Clemens: — [inaudible].

Vivica: Right, yeah, let’s talk about cholesterol for a second because that’s a big topic here and you know that like [unintelligible] [28:08] are one of the drugs that got absolutely overprescribed I think after thyroid drugs, the second one is probably … if not the first. So what’s your approach to cholesterol? And you guys have quite idea from parameter for cholesterol in the blood, right; high cholesterol is not an issue for your patients.

Dr. Clemens: It is not an issue. Use cholesterol as a feedback on the achievements because if you’re offering the diet, you should have your blood cholesterol between a certain range. It should be between six and eight which is higher than the conventional range for the cholesterol in the traditional system.

Vivica: Right.

Dr. Clemens: But you see for example that many people [unintelligible] are having much higher cholesterol level than that; maybe 12, 13, 15. And this is not an hearsay, this is just a feedback that they do not eat according to the best protein [inaudible] and this have to be inducted.

Vivica: So what you’re looking at for health numbers in cholesterol are durations or where is your parameter then?

Dr. Clemens: No, the total cholesterol level I mean and it is just an indication that something is not the best. That that is not the best. So this carnivore people may be eating too much lean fat and not enough protein and this leads to overeating because the energy should be coming either from carbohydrates or the fat. But if you cut out carbohydrates, then you should —

Vivica: [Crosstalk] [30:07] the fat.

Dr. Clemens: Yeah, you need the fat and the kind of work people usually do not eat enough fat and they try sometimes this by eating more and more and in this case, the cholesterol will be higher–

Vivica: I see.

Dr. Clemens: — than it should be. There are other laboratory alliterations in carnivore people.

Vivica: I see. [Crosstalk] [30:29] it’s not … This is just not perfect or not the idea situation of the body.

Vivica: Understand. So why is the idea of ratio of fat and protein that you use in PKD?

Dr. Clemens: These are just a fat to protein ratio; two to one. Two for the fat and one for the protein or something around this.

Vivica: And this is in grams, right? So it is two grams of fat to one gram of protein.

Dr. Clemens: Yes, this is for dry matter content. This is for dry matter content but you do not have to count every single gram of content you eat. It is enough if you just estimating it.

Vivica: I see and then it’s eating to satiety and so you just eat until you’re satisfied and there is no need to like really calculate macros or track macros or you know.

Dr. Clemens: Yes, researchers only counting a little bit at the beginning. But later on, everybody is– It is a learning process after a few weeks, patients already learn how to eat [inaudible] [31:51 – 32:10] eating instinctively.

Vivica: Yeah, I’d like to compare the micros to training wheels. Just like when you ride the bicycle, you start with a training wheels and then you calculate a little bit but then like you should learn pretty fast how to not use them anymore and be able to ride on your own meaning like yeah, it intuitively like you say.

So what are the– Can you just list for people who are not familiar with your way of eating? Like what are the components of the diet exactly? Like you saying so it’s four legged animal meat and what else? There are specific things you include, right?

Dr. Clemens: Yes, they should include meat, fat and organ meat. So actually, this is from nose to tail approach. You can eat everything from anywhere except the gall bladder.

Vivica: Right.

Dr. Clemens: [Inaudible] [33:17]. But if you are aiming at the full nutritional value diet then you really have to eat red meat. Your diet will not be full on poultry or [unintelligible] on poultry so you really need red meat, you need fat from four legged animals and you also need the other meats specifically liver and brain. These are the two most nutritious organ meat.

Vivica: And I know that for people who cannot find brain, you can substitute bone marrow to the brain because in the United States for example. I eat nose to tail and like I have millions of recipes for organs but even I grew up in Italy eating brains. My mom– like as a little kid that’s what she’ll feed me at least once a week. But in the United States if you tell somebody to eat brains, first they’ll go run away screaming.

And second even if they want to try, it’s really hard to find. They commercially do not sell brains. You have to go to the farmer. That’s the only way I could find brains to eat in the United States is making friends with the farmers, going there on butchering day and actually coming home with like bins and bins full of sheep heads and cow heads and then cracking them myself [laughs].

Dr. Clemens: [Laughs]

Vivica: But bone marrow is quite accessible, so do you think that for the fat and nutrient content, we could substitute bone marrow for a brain here in the states?

Dr. Clemens: Yes, their nutritional profile is similar as regards vitamin c. They both contain similar amounts of them so yes, you can eat bone marrow. But it is not that delicious as brain. Myself, I fancy brain.

Vivica: I love brain [laughs]. And then see like I am an Italian living in the United States and sometimes, there is a little bit of a culture of discrepancy because we are raised with these kind of food and here people– kids are raised on pizza and hot dogs.

Dr. Clemens: Yes.

Vivica: Trying to educate people to like really appreciate and understand where your nutrition comes from, it’s sometimes a bit of a uphill battle but I am so glad to have the backing of the scientists who tells you to eat liver and brain and people think I’m crazy for telling them that. But you’re a doctor, you’re a scientist and you have worked in clinical practice for many years with amazing success and so it just makes me happy that this is the right way of eating and it’s proven.

Dr. Clemens: Yes.

Vivica: Another quick question Dr. Clemens. What about salt? Where does salt belong in your way of eating? Do you use salt, do you recommend salt to your patients? How would we measure salt? Because I know about electrolytes and ketosis and we have a higher need for sodium when we are in ketosis. So how does that work for you, please?———36:45

Dr. Clemens: This is actually not true. We do have a lower requirement for salt if you are in ketosis because actually, the carbohydrate based processes needs salt, at least the sodium from the salt so overall, if you’re eating a meat fat based diet, you’ll require less salt. So I know patients who never use salt. But we do not [inaudible] [37:16] salt because if you eat salt in excess, it will be just excreted by your urine.

So it is absolutely up to you whether you want to use salt and what amount and there are no risk associated with eating too much salt of course within normal limits so I can [inaudible] requirements. But I don’t want to use [unintelligible] salt which is rock salt without additives, without the kicking agents which is very greatly put into the salt.

Vivica: Aluminium and such things, so you’re right, yeah. So when I first started studying the ketogenic diet, I was like I saw a lot of like– not research but like I was instructed in my nutrition studies that when you first start ketogenic, you will start excreting more sodium and therefore needing more sodium. Is that physiologically correct?

Dr. Clemens: It is true for the classical ketogenic diet.

Vivica: Okay, but not for PKD.

Dr. Clemens: Most of the statements are going to be automatically transferred.

Vivica: I see.

Dr. Clemens: So ketogenic diet to paleo to ketogenic diet. And indeed across the ketogenic diet predisposes a number of nutrient deficiencies including magnesium, not necessarily sodium.

Vivica: Magnesium

Dr. Clemens: Sodium is very stable but can result in magnesium deficiency, iron deficiency low levels of vitamin D. because. I do not include all the meat into the classical ketogenic diet but I think milk, dairy, unhealthy vegetable oils and so on, so the composition of the diet is reduced, unhealthy not ketosis.

Vivica: So you mention unhealthy vegetable oils and I know in those oils, you include coconut oil and here in the states, like coconut oil is probably the number one oil used in ketogenic. Can you tell us a little bit more about that and why coconut oil is not appropriate and not healthy?

Dr. Clemens: So for example nutritionally, it is very weak. As regards to nutritional content, it is empty calories but the major thing is that eating coconut oil will increase inflammatory processes in the body. They may also decrease dietary function of the body. So we do see that in those woman [sic] who are eating coconut oil and also other popular components for example of the paelolytic diet develop altering your own thyroid disease within a few years.

Vivica: Wow.

Dr. Clemens: And that’s bad because they have strived to eat the paleo diet [inaudible] [40:50] to maintain and stay healthy and not to give a help to immune thyroid disease.

Vivica: That’s right, that’s right.

Dr. Clemens: That’s true and this is well if you can see from the laboratory measurements; before or after measurements in the laboratory. So these are based on measurements and not only on theory from the Google or—

Vivica: Right.

Dr. Clemens: So the coconut oil is surrounded with very positive. And critical and the bloggers and has even proponents take over these disclaims without any criticism, without having on experienced with the detrimental effects of the coconut oil—. So first, the coconut oil may seem healthy because you may see that the blood glucose level degrees that it is decreasing whatever low carb diets who are following

Vivica: Right.

Dr. Clemens: But on the long term negative effect. I say so that’s also I think because when you come from a very unhealthy diet like the standard American diet where there may no I also use their canola oil which are G.M.O. and rancid already from the start and you switch to something like coconut oil it is an improvement in inflammation further by the so you are going well and better but you know if you put it in the larger perspective like you say it’s not necessarily serving the body and I think that that’s what happens with a lot of diets because you know people come and tell all the time like you know here.

They’re pretty.

Aggressive about their points of view and they come to get out of your way to try to prove you they’re big and use their weight. Go and you know one of their arguments is that oh you know I had these ideas in these conditions and then when they got it got better but of course when you’re coming in from the standpoint of an extremely unhealthy way of getting that it’s all processed foods and really unhealthy fat and you know fried foods and what not. Even going vegan it’s it is an improvement from there and your body will just react to the improvements and not necessarily saying that that is a healthy way of eating what do you think about that Dr.

I’m just thinking that it is just another very often has eating.

Personally because it is easy to be associated with standard American diet and there are regional sourcing to you to begin to put.

A number.

And yes first first it is asking. The similar story because the fasting you.

Experience.

With fasting that at the beginning of fasting there’s problems I mean there is improvement.

That can be improvements because your blood because the crazies.

You skipped.

Most of the components like me you mean proteins are our brains diary and you can feel better. At the very beginning.

You will be looking at the most important vital means.

So it is not sustainable and I’m just I’m just enjoying part of.

To say the.

There are many types of. Approaches are dire and something is good at the beginning doesn’t mean it is it is a good walk down. The chilled be good in the long term and when you see no side effects on the market either.

Otherwise.

People will be disappointed and I think many people are disappointed.

Because you could be their journey. And after a few years.

This is this is not a house and let’s go back to the standard American diet and they are saying it seems that I have been missing.

Grains are carbohydrates and this is because of delayed I.

Am not a question about a special no trans.

Being kind of at the back of my mind I What about iodine.

Did it do we need extra I dine is that I owed and that comes through the tissues of the animal sufficient to for our needs How does that work when you are in life and away from any like source like you know or shows or. Any other source Yes about the you can find out the in that us through the meat of the moments and the meat so that’s why it is important to eat organic needs and it is also true for all of us three you do not have to eat sea fish use. Dirtied sea fishes in the middle of our program base in North.

People have been eating eating fish in Hungary not the. Sea fish but also marked fish is from water dates you have been surviving across many hundreds of years so you do not have to sink specifically about any nutrient because you will be able to find it in dentistry among us that is going to.

Be last year which. You got on the belly with the guy at the fish and on.

And I was seeing it it was a good study.

It was.

The eye of the lovers maybe lower.

Their American diet no.

Such thing this may have be necessarily bad.

Because if you’re eating another. One of the type of diet you may be doing.

Less amount I’m certain nutrient.

I mean so the intake of Frank I mean C. is much lower.

But it is enough because we do nothing combine beats and then competition between the carbohydrate include goes into Vitamin C. And there are many.

Nutrient completions made in a body three each may not know everything so alone diffidently does lower doesn’t mean anything on the other side these people haven’t been eating organ meats on a regular basis song we don’t know whether it is a. Very good conclusion.

On our I want them to.

Know anything about me we only know are those people who.

Do not develop the vision to see.

Right yeah because I think you know I come from a background a Western fries and. Nutrient dense foods and that’s always the way that I try to you know that’s why I am so big on the organ meats and I think there are a necessary part of it.

It’s definitely. Like I’ve seen so many versions of Quito and paleo in the United States just go wrong and I think for me it’s always I am totally in agreement with your way of saying things that organ meats are necessary and necessary part of a healthy diet and also you know there is a lot of talk these days about anti nutrients and plan time to nutrients like like things like you know Dr Gundry doing all this research on the Actons and they feel like he is on the right track but I also feel like it’s quite limited it is almost like he points a laser at one thing and forgets that there are like a hundred and that are all of those substances you know in the fluid and is just like making one that called prayed for like so many diseases when my plans have several you know nutrients not just the active and but you know it’s I think it’s good research and it helps kind of our cause for growing more so words and animal and. This is I gotta tell you Dr Clements is kind of revolutionizing the way I think and the way I think about Tito and paleo and. They way that I think about healing to a fluid because this is the ultimate.

All to made food as.

Yes So this is the best think of a.

Dozen times.

And of course there are situations. This is not enough but this is the most that we can do for patients Yes Well I’ve.

Been a lot of their discussions and so much good information I could ask you more questions for our is.

Maybe at some point I’ll have the honor to have you back for more questions I know that I will be implementing some of your practices or a lot of your practices in my own practice and try to keep helping people just do the best they can and you know truly heal and not just use palliative and you know not just add things on top like medications to manage symptoms but truly heal the body especially that that and with the gods your brain and you know your immunity and everything that really counts to establish a strong foundation of how.

I wear I’m going to put some names to your website and I know people can find you on social media as well you guys are not really big on social media you’re.

On Facebook. You know you cannot be get.

Two places at the same time.

They should not have not much time for social media Believe me I know the problem. But thank you so much Dr Clements I will put things.

Or places where you guys can find Dr Clements a new do long distance call and so it’s on Skype as well right yes we’re doing after seeing the money going to come on some two patients yet and I am actually planning having some Kohn So myself and trying the systems of Dr Clements myself before I can truly. Recommend it to patients so.

Stay tuned for the Marines.

OK.

Thank you again for everything and what a pleasure having you thank you bye.